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Bug: Missile/Bullet Velocity
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7/11/2012 2:35:50 PM,
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110 months ago by
D4rkFr4g
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I've noticed that the missile velocity is currently constant. This means whether I'm sitting still or if I'm hurtling through space at x mph the missile velocity is still constant. This makes for a weird effect of your missiles falling behind you when your going forward. I'm weighing the thought between realism and arcade feel, since the trade-off is shooting missiles behind you when going full speed. The realistic way would be that the missiles would shoot backwards slower than if standing still. As far as ship to ship combat it would still be fair as two ships traveling at the same velocity firing missiles at each other would be the same effect as if the two ships were sitting still firing at each other.
Maybe a happy medium in between would work well. Say %50 of ship velocity added to the missile velocity. So if your going fast the missile will still shoot out ahead of you but if shot backwards it wouldn't be crawling. Another option would be to add acceleration to missiles, so if you were traveling fast in one direction while shooting missiles backwards they would maybe start at negative velocity but then accelerate to a point they are traveling at a positive velocity. This would make sense being in space since any propellant would accelerate a projectile not keep it at a constant speed.
As for the bullets they don't seem to be affected by ship velocity. For example if I'm traveling as fast as possible in one direction and I turn sideways and start shooting bullets they hit the cross-hairs every time. They should trail opposite of the direction of travel. This would make it harder to shoot something in a dogfight but it would add that realism and make skill a necessity in a dogfight.
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110 months ago by
ZevN47
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I've noticed this about the missiles as well though I'm not sure anything needs to be done. I'd like to have ship velocity affect missiles but right now I think there are more important things to be coding.
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109 months ago by
DDR1254
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Oh, it'd be really nice if the velocity bug would be fixed. For me, at least, it rather breaks immersion when I have to think about how fast I'm going in addition to everything else.
I suppose it's a small thing, but it is odd.
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109 months ago by
sloder
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Im not programist or even good at it but even for me it looks easy to program(I dont know how this game is writen but from what i learned its just make little changes in 1 line of code-harder would be finding that line)
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109 months ago by
Grave
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imo missiles in space+2081 are pointless, thats like using bows in todays warfare
i might post some analysis on future space warfare later when i'm bored : )
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109 months ago by
Jestersheepy
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Would be an interesting read Gavis!
I would love to see condense heated rounds or pulse beams, or even virus warfare! :D
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109 months ago by
Zephyr8965
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Well, if you look at 3rd world countries, today, they DO still use bows. So, it's feasible for missile systems to exist in space age warfare as a cheap alternative to the more advanced weaponry. Also, a missile is a fire and forget weapon (except for dumbfire, which is sadly what you're using here), which, even as technology advances, has strategic properties.
The dumbfire rockets do still possess a use as the delayed strike can be used to one's advantage in certain situations, plus I'd imagine at that point in time, it'd be a far cheaper alternative (plus less power-consuming for a cheap generator) than plasma and energy weapons.
Also, on the missiles and bullets, it is a pretty simple addition of code to have your ship's velocity go into the bullet,you simple add a few input variables into the function that creates projectiles and fill those variables with the ones governing ship velocity, but if you do that, you need to put in some targeting systems, as it's already hard enough for some people to aim the weapons in this game.
Translating distance + velocity of target + velocity of you + effects your velocity has on your weapons into a 2-dimensional grid to give you targeting information for all your weapons isn't a terribly complex set of code, but it is a pretty complicated stack of mathematical algorithms, so I'd imagine that's why they're holding off on that part for the time being.
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109 months ago by
TiberiuS
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Well, it's a rather simple vector calculation:
MissileSpeedVect(x1;y1;z1) = ShipSpeedVect(x2;y2;z2) + ShipDirectionalVect(x3;y3;z3) * InitialMissileSpeed
Absolute Value of ShipDirectionVect(x3;y3;z3) has to be '1'; this means sqrt((x3)^2 + (y3)^2 + (z3)^2) == 1
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109 months ago by
Zephyr8965
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o.O
I really need to hurry up and get into calculus. >.>
But yeah, the problem isn't making the momentum carry over, it's counteracting the heightened aiming difficulty, which takes a little more coding. It's not that it's terribly difficult, it's just something that would take some time to work out and get coded properly with some testing, so they're probably putting it on the back burner for a little while.
Considering the level of realism they seem to be going for in this game, I'm sure they'll just add some of the projectile stuff into the physics engine so it all seamlessly integrates into an already-constructed system, but getting it all integrated in a way that doesn't disrupt things will take more effort which they're likely spending on more important things at the moment.
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109 months ago by
DDR1254
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I'd like to see true lasers, not those Star Wars ones. Decent attack, instant aiming, weak to shiney surfaces. ;)
On the subject of bows, I think a bow in space would be effective. Can you think of anything sneakier than a fellow in a black space suit, half a kilometer out into space, silently bombarding your ship with a composite bow? One of those bows would have enough power to put a big enough hole in your ship or windshield to kill you. From a large group of ships, or camped out on an asteroid, a space ninja could pose a serious threat to any miner. Very easy to kill a fellow going to war with nothing but a pressure tent and a fancy suit, but very hard to find them in an asteroid. Best just to blow the whole thing up. :D
There was a story in Analog SF&F about something like that, a while back. Anyone else remember it?
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109 months ago by
TiberiuS
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QUOTE: One of those bows would have enough power to put a big enough hole in your ship or windshield to kill you.
I don't think this would work with bulletproof glass, which a miner ship/fighter definitely has installed. ;-)
The miner ship because of pieces of rock that could hit the windshield and the figter because of... well... bullets! :D
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109 months ago by
muggsbud
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bullet proof glass would stop an arrow no problem; but (random interesting fact) against a Kevlar vest a bow or knife would go through like it would a normal winter coat.
why? the bullet relies on the shock of impact to kill, they are actually pretty dull, it hits the vest and the threads pull tight dispersing the shock. Against normal cloths it actually rips the threads.an arrow or knife cuts the threads instead.
in space bows would be pretty lethal against any exposed tubes or hoses though.
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109 months ago by
TiberiuS
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QUOTE: ...but (random interesting fact) against a Kevlar vest a bow or knife would go through like it would a normal winter coat.
Hm, not really. An arrow or knive (if you stab) could pierce through a kevlar vest... yes, maybe. Because both are very spikey.
But kevlar is also used in cutproof gloves, because kevlar fibres are very cut resistant. ^^
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109 months ago by
sloder
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i heard of some liquid(long ago so i dont remember how was it called) that after added to kevlar was making it almost uncutable(they had to drop a big spike from a height to cut it)
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108 months ago by
Zephyr8965
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Actually, a conventional bow/arrow in space would not work. Arrows rely on air resistance to fly straight. While lack of friction and all that would let the arrow fly indefinitely, most of your shots would be a spinning arrow (not spiraling, spinning, as in the pointy part is continuously being whipped in a circular fashion) because the bow fires the arrow with a sudden, sharp, powerful thrust against the back of it.
Normally, this isn't much of an issue to a skilled archer because the arrow is designed to cut through the air and use aerodynamics to fly straight, but without that (such as in space), it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to shoot an arrow straight.
Also, no, an arrow would fail miserably to go through bulletproof glass and would likely fail to go through most instrumentation unless you have a ridiculously strong bow.
Now, mind you, a properly modified crossbow would probably still be fairly effective in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, but only against ships that are moving very slowly. The thing is, in space, you get going REEEEAAAALLLLLYYY fast. (think about some of the re-entry speeds of the shuttles coming back from the moon/space. You remove air resistance and gravity from the equations and vehicles suddenly start going like 1000x faster)
Also, yes, a knife will go through kevlar. It's a tough cut, and will likely not go as deep as it otherwise would have, but the kevlar's not going to make you even remotely knife-proof. I don't know about some chemical that makes it indestructible, but I wouldn't count too much on that. Kevlar is "cut"-resistant, not impale-resistant. You jab a sharp object into it, it'll sever with a bit of pressure which, if you're trying to stab someone, you've already got that ready.
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108 months ago by
Madfish
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A bit off topic but the problem with piercy projectiles is that they will penetrate into soft surfaces but not hard ones.
When the pointy tip connects with the surface it will either be able to direct all of it's energy into it, thus penetrating, or if the surface manages to reflect/deflect some of this energy an inertia reaction will just completely deflect the arrow.
Thus angle of attack is the most important thing when shooting with an arrow. If you're unlucky a simple tree can deflect your arrow without taking a lot of damage.
That's why pointy ammunition (sniper rounds e.g.) penetrate kevlar wests really well while hangun ammo or even shotgun ammo barely leaves a mark. It's not just the velocity but also the design of the rounds itself.
On topic: I noticed the velocity issue as well and in fact I have overtaken my own rockets although they kept powereing in the direction of the asteroid. Their trail is just for show and doesn't affect their velocity at all it seems. I'd also like to see this bug corrected.
Vehicle speed and the propellant system of the missile itself should affect the projectiles overall speed, thus slowly increasing it's speed while the missile is propelling itself.
With bullets of course you only have the vehicles speed and the projectiles speed get's added to that.
By the way, I too think that these weapon systems are being phased out soon (at least for space warfare they're unimaginable to me) and I'd also like to see some detailed analysis about next gen space combat. So Grave, if you're still with us do look into it and summarize it for us if you'd like. ;P
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108 months ago by
ZevN47
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QUOTE: bullet proof glass would stop an arrow no problem; but (random interesting fact) against a Kevlar vest a bow or knife would go through like it would a normal winter coat.
why? the bullet relies on the shock of impact to kill, they are actually pretty dull, it hits the vest and the threads pull tight dispersing the shock. Against normal cloths it actually rips the threads.an arrow or knife cuts the threads instead.
in space bows would be pretty lethal against any exposed tubes or hoses though.
A winter coat might be a slight exaduration but we get your point... bullets might take this into account in space because we don't have to worry about air resistance and such. Cone-bullet? Also upon further reflection I agree with D4rkFr4g that missiles should inherit velocity, it feels quite odd when you can out run your missiles.
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108 months ago by
sherbetlemons
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Missiles would only be ineffective if the target has some sort of point defense, which realistically, ships would have to defend against micrometeorites and such. but in miner wars there is nothing of the sort. With no defenses to overcome, missiles suddenly become very effective and much more efficient than bullets (which unless they where fired at relativistic speeds, would be stopped by those same defenses) and much more powerful than lasers. They could carry VERY powerful warheads, and could be delivered in large salvoes to overwhelm any defenses. missiles, especially nukes, can also be used against other missiles...
And railguns, while great, would likely be HUGE and very unwieldy, so could only be used on motherships
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108 months ago by
davey1357
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how about a coilgun?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun
he coilgun is the railgun's little brother, and can be used quite effectively now. Size isn't an issue as I've seen one built into the shell of NERF longshot.
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7/11/2012 2:35:50 PM,
Old PRE-ALPHA topic
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