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Wanted Features
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factions, Bigger ships and space stations
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7/11/2012 2:35:50 PM,
Old PRE-ALPHA topic
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109 months ago by
ScriptWolf
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ok i have had an idea on how to implement the bigger ship classes into the game like destroyers and the other bigger classes of ships.
when a player has enough money he can buy the bigger ship classes from where every you buy them, and then i can then travel alot further away from everyone else and find more places to mine, But there ship classes also act and the mother ship, so you can offer people to take up a space in your ship and then you can place a rent onto the slot (don't have to thought so you could be a dock for all your mates so your always together and stuff) and then people can take up the slot and dock there ship there when they log off, and then the bigger ship can also act as a dock for a shop, and to heal and get ammo and other stuff.
also the player owning the destroyer still keeps his mining ship and can switch between flying the battle cruiser, to flying he small mining craft. also taking a bit off freeallegiance the players who have a slot in the bigger ship can then man one of the turrets if they are docked in the cruiser and help defend it if it has come under attack,
also having access to big ship classes like destroyers could add a lot more fun into the game when we get large scale warfare between all the players in mmo or what ever, because then in your faction goes to war and you own a big ship class then you can take all your friends along with you and contribute to the war alot, but this works in both ways.
also having bigger ship classes can also contribute the the amount of different weapons you can have (which is the beta i want to see 100's of different weapon ideas!! :) ) so having a heavy destroyer will give you access to having nukes and some heavier weapons.
Also players should be able to buy space stations and then run an economy off that, as well as players being able to buy and own different buildings and manufacturing posts, like refinersy and other stuff.
the idea is keen software that you let the PLAYERS define the world not have a set one...
for instance i don't really want to see the factions NPC controlled, i would like to see all the faction controlled by player, from whats built where, to where mining operations, and what is going to be researched next. yes factions should get their own research plan, and be able to research different weapons, mining tools, ship classes, and other bits and bobs. but i think everything should be player controlled. And also having ranks in the faction... everyone like trying to strive to get a better rank and standing with sometihng and eventually become the big boss of everything.
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109 months ago by
TiberiuS
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Research is rubbish for an MMO! For Singleplayer maybe, but I think this wouldn't fit in the game concept as a shooter / mining game.
The problem with fully player controlled factions is that some rather peaceful factions can change their attitude dramatically if the player who leads them says so. Then you can just leave all the factions out of the MMO and just call them "clans" with different starting conditions (ship types, weapons, mining equipment).
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109 months ago by
anotherthing
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How is research in an MMO rubbish? Pretty much every MMO with a crafting system has "research". The same end result with a slightly different mechanic.
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109 months ago by
JoseyWales
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i don't see were research would work to well with this type of mmo but the gathering of different materials for construction and supplies does and fits with the game premise. the different things that you can construct from facilities to weapons would take many mined resources to complete and gathering them up would be the quest or research so to speak..
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109 months ago by
Jestersheepy
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Research could work in an MMO and does... Look at EVE online for example.
But it's a very shady area. It would work if you say, researched how to improve something, or researched on how to cut the cost of manufacturing, or the speed of production.
As of the player controlling all of the factions. Why? Whats the difference between another Player and an NPC? Well there could almost be no difference if done right, and the main difference there would be, the NPCs can be controlled and told what to do by the developers (How the game shapes), players can't.
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109 months ago by
TiberiuS
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Miner Wars is played in real time and is semi-realistic... so how long would it take to research something? Months? Years? So research plans don't make sense to me.
Better solution is that the factions have all the technology they can have. But only players with a good reputation for that faction or with some higher rank can get their hands on more advanced weapons, ships or mining equipment (if they don't buy it from black market which would be extremely cost-intensive).
So if you want to improve how fast you can produce or how to lower cost in maufacturing you can buy manufacturing upgrades if your faction gives you the permission and technology to do so... but don't call it research...
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109 months ago by
Jestersheepy
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I would like to mention there are a hell of a lot of games that run in real time (Including EVE) that use research.
Could take hours, perhaps day but when you have say 5 research jobs going at once and research isn't the main element of the game but more of an option, that is perfect.
It's not like the player will be sitting there waiting for research to be done now is it?
Even more there's ways around that if that is the case. Assign more production into research and make it go faster.
I don't think technology like physical items should be that restrictive. It would require you say have the right module slots on your ship to hold, perhaps the right power on your ship to operate but if you kill, steal or obtain the items through someone else you shouldn't be restricted by this 'technology rank' you speak of.
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109 months ago by
TiberiuS
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If you steal some advanced tech or weapon you can use on your ship (because you have the right slots for it) it's okay. But if its broken or stolen from you you can't just buy anotherone because noone will sell a 'quantum beam laser' or a '500kt Nuklear Missile' (or whatever) to a recruit.
It's not necessarily about how advanced in technology a system is, it's more about 'are you worth it to get one and how far can we trust you?'
I don't like the research idea. In a realistic real time game in 2081 where no 'advanced cyber brain AI' can do the research in hours for the humans such things just take months. So imo you can your research idea just call "DLC", because it brings you new stuff after some time. :-P
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109 months ago by
Jestersheepy
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Hmm so its sounds like your talking less about actually obtaining technology and more of a reputation system between factions.
Much like the 'Hostile/Unfriendly/friendly' system but more advanced (Perhaps 10 levels of trust to each faction independently).
As for the Research AI you mentioned, I think that is perfectly reasonable for an AI to calculate faster production of a certain items within a few hours.
I think that would even be possible in todays world. Think of defragmentation on a computers harddrive.
But as I said, I don't think that it should be a system the player depends on. Research should be done in the background, should be optional and should take quite a long time to complete. Worth it to some, others maybe not.
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109 months ago by
TiberiuS
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QUOTE: Hmm so its sounds like your talking less about actually obtaining technology and more of a reputation system between factions.
Much like the 'Hostile/Unfriendly/friendly' system but more advanced (Perhaps 10 levels of trust to each faction independently).
Exactely. I also suggested an intelligent reputation system in the "Wanted Features" section with a reputation between -100 and +100.
QUOTE: As for the Research AI you mentioned, I think that is perfectly reasonable for an AI to calculate faster production of a certain items within a few hours.
I think that would even be possible in todays world. Think of defragmentation on a computers harddrive.
Assuming that the production and refineries in the game are fully automated, I'd say that all the production facilites are as optimized as they can be to fulfill their specific tasks. Because they are modular and look the same everywhere (within one faction) they surely have been optimized during their development.
I've no problem with upgrades though which let you produce 20% faster while costing only 10% more energy (and thus being more efficient).
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109 months ago by
Jestersheepy
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Coming up with some good stuff here... Need to document it or something then send it to the developers.
I really hope they take some of what the community says into account, I hope now that the whole voxel stuff is done they don't just add a story, a few more ships and weapons.
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109 months ago by
anotherthing
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Crafting in most MMOs works just fine and it's basically the same as research as I said. Make enough of one thing, and then you can make a slightly better thing. The more things you make, the better things you can make. It's basically research, the difference is you burn materials instead of time. It works just fine in just about all the MMOs that allow it.
Fallen Earth has crafting which does take time, but you continue to craft offline. The problem with that is you spool up a bunch of stuff to craft and go offline.. Then never really return. Honestly, that's why I stopped playing that game. I got to the point where I went online just to check my progress and spool up something else. Then I just stopped checking.
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109 months ago by
TiberiuS
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In the FAQ it is said that there will be no crafting at all:
QUOTE: Will there be crafting of ships, guns, equipment, etc?
Sorry, but no crafting. However, you will be able to upgrade the equipment on your ship depending on its type.
So I'm curious what the MMO will be about.
As I understand the game concept (from the FAQ and the official statements here in the forums) it will definitely not become a MMORPG (means no identification with a specific caracter, no skills, no levels). Main part of the game will be the space shooter / mining thing. MarekRosa posted somewhere that it's just called MMO because it happens in one big online-world. Players who only play 2 hours/week should have the same fun as players who play 20 hours/week (so no "I play 24/7 and I'm so overpowered you cannot even do harm to my mega ship") and so on.
I hope that it will not only be an online shooter in which you mine to get some money to be able to buy bigger weapons...
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109 months ago by
mrcalhou
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Tiberius, the progression thing like you mention with getting into bigger and better ships wouldn't have to be such a huge advantage relative to smaller ships. Bigger ships would likely take longer to accelerate and turn, and they could have a harder time tracking smaller ships. What I mean by this, is that if you are in a larger ship, smaller ships will appear small to you so it would be difficult to get a clear shot off on them.
Larger ships could be advantegeous to protect against other large ships and to seige player-controlled bases. Pilots in small ships would still be needed to protect the larger ships from other small ships. One ant is annoying, but a hundred becomes dangerous. At least, this is the way I'd envision it.
If they are going to have a system in place that uses currency to purchase goods, then I think it'd be fairly simple to program it so that the ores that we mine could be a psuedo-currency and only tradable for metals and other materials that would come from them (Refining). Then "purchasing" some items could require a certain amount of materials (Crafting). I think it'd be more strategic to use a system like this, since it'd give players a reason to go looking for rarer ores besides "Oh, I can make a little bit more money."
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109 months ago by
TiberiuS
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Funny thing. I didn't even mention bigger ships / frigates / cruisers. ^^
You're right; they shouldn't be a huge advantage. You should always need small ships around you for your protection.
But slow tunr rate and so on is another thing. This would only be taken into account for the primary weapon of the bigger ship (e.g. the gun you need to destroy other big ships or stations). For defending against smaller ships you'll have turrets with autocannons and maybe flak... otherwise big ships would be completely defenseless, which would not make much sense.
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109 months ago by
mrcalhou
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I was refering to your use of the term "mega ship." ^_^
QUOTE: players who only play 2 hours/week should have the same fun as players who play 20 hours/week (so no "I play 24/7 and I'm so overpowered you cannot even do harm to my mega ship") and so on.
But yes, you are certainly right. Realistically, a larger ship would almost certainly have such defense mechanisms. I thought I read somewhere they were implementing a system of having bigger ships and having players, other than the ships pilot, control some of the weapon systems.
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109 months ago by
TiberiuS
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Ah, okay. That was just to make clear that there will be no player controlled uber-ships which give you a huge advantage against standard ships from what I've read here in the forums ^^
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109 months ago by
Jestersheepy
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Personally think the MMO is too far away to be speculating about it.
Multiplayer code isnt even in the current build which isnt an MMO.
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109 months ago by
mrcalhou
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...So? We can still talk about things and a dev may even go, "You know we just might do that afterall!"
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109 months ago by
Jestersheepy
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Oh yeah sorry don't let me stop you talking about it.
Was just thinking this was an intention to help the development of the MMO, in which this discussion would be better to Copy+Paste in a few months time.
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7/11/2012 2:35:50 PM,
Old PRE-ALPHA topic
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